warwick
Provost
Posts:124
 |
| 09/02/2006 1:57 PM |
 Alert
|
I just took over the rapier practice for Lionsgate (and the MOB sigh) and I can unoquivically state I don't give a rats ass that fibreglass doesn't react like steel when it's in the hands of a brand new student. I'm happy if he can form secunda and point his toe, and so is he.
Apologies to the purists, but I need it for the practice in order to outfit new students out of the gate - we typically get them in groups as friends bring their friends.
The new students - the ones who stay, upgrade to steel as soon as they can. We had a new student Thursday and 2 relatively new students who are still on fibreglass. We have another three who have upgraded to steel in the last couple months. If I drop fibreglass from the next practice I'll have 3 students without steel. If they stop coming, it get's harder for me to pay the hall rent. If I can't pay the rent, then we have no practice in Lionsgate. Shall I loan them my steel every week? Perhaps I can hit up the Barony for 450 bucks to buy three Hanweis. In the long run probably cheaper than the Barony floating a stagnant practice.
So if you're still reading after that little rant, perhaps someone can answer this question for me. Would I be able to use fibreglass in drill? I suppose I could give the newbies a 40 inch dowel instead, but at least the fibreglass has a guard and quillons.
|
|
|
|
|
Gwydion
Free Scholar
Posts:59
|
| 09/02/2006 8:30 PM |
Alert
|
The more things change, the more they stay the same... inclusionists versus exclusionists. Purists versus the mob...
It seems so long ago when I was championing fibreglass and Thore was the voice of the purist... and finally those from up on high have brought down the decision from the mount...
So, I have a few queries:
What will happen if a fighter allows fibreglass at his practices?
(stoning? tar and feathering? how about "shunning"?)
Who gives a damn if fibreglass is used in practices?
(not me, but you all know that already)
Who wants to be the "Fibre-cop"? and go about dispensing card revokings and organizing shunnings and fibreglass blade burnings?
(and will he/she get a badge?)
All humour aside, forget about practices and focus on events and tournaments where we're seen...or demand that all fighters also dress in period garb for practices, and speak forsoothly or not at all...
practice is to learn, and if I can handle duct-tape goo on my blade every week, just so joe fighter can learn while he saves for his steel blade...right on.
Gwydion
|
|
God defend me from my friends; from my enemies I can defend myself.
|
|
|
Bart Archer
Novice
Posts:3
|
| 09/03/2006 12:40 AM |
Alert
|
As a "newbie" to the SCA, this group, and to rapier fighting plaese permit me to put my 2 cents in. Fiber glass has allowed me to practice without risking someone elses "expensive" hardware. My coach, Lady Molly Modine, gererousley provided fiber glass blades for myself and my three children to practice and learn with untill we can arrange for steel blades of our own. Had it not been for these blades we would not have continued to this point. All Molly has asked in return for the blades use is that we help maintain and repair them. which has assisted in our understanding of their from and function. Personally I have no intention of fighting in turnaments or championships, I simply wish to enjoy some quality time with my children and friends, so the competetive differences between glass and steel means little to me. As to costs. As my "mundane" son Johannes pointed out a months wages for a blade is a little steep. However, are the cheeper blades worth the money? We, as a family resurched different companies and decided to get the best available so as to not have to bye another blade in 3 or 4 months. Should Fiberglass be removed from turnamants? That is for far more experienced people than me. However to ban fiberglass from the training field would have cost this area 4 fighters already, and will cost many other newbie's in the future.
Dry string and tight groupings
Bart Archer
Huntsman to the Houndslow Heath co-operative |
|
|
|
|
Draven
Free Scholar
Posts:65
|
| 09/03/2006 3:12 AM |
Alert
|
Greetings,
To add to Warwick's post about numbers of fighters in the practices utilizing fibreglass. We would lose about 5 fighters if this rule came into effect tommorrow. This is for the practices in Ramsgaard (Kamloops, BC). A bulk of us have steel but there are the newcomers that are ordering and those that are just coming into the fold. We usually have about 2-3 new fighters for the most part.
|
|
Draven Mac Raith
Cadet to Monseigneur Prospere de Montsegur
"Scar of Tir Righ" Principality Rapier Champion |
|
|
Hakim
Scholar
Posts:26
|
| 09/03/2006 2:38 PM |
Alert
|
Posted By warwick on 09-02-2006 1:57 PM
"So if you're still reading after that little rant, perhaps someone can answer this question for me. Would I be able to use fibreglass in drill? I suppose I could give the newbies a 40 inch dowel instead, but at least the fibreglass has a guard and quillons."
One other benifit of fiberglass over dowels, is that fiberglass will flex if someone gets hit by accident.
|
|
Hakim
student to Don Enoch |
|
|
Sevrin
FALSE
Free Scholar
Posts:39
|
| 09/04/2006 12:05 AM |
Alert
|
Posted By Draven on 09-03-2006 3:12 AM
Greetings,
To add to Warwick's post about numbers of fighters in the practices utilizing fibreglass. We would lose about 5 fighters if this rule came into effect tommorrow. This is for the practices in Ramsgaard (Kamloops, BC). A bulk of us have steel but there are the newcomers that are ordering and those that are just coming into the fold. We usually have about 2-3 new fighters for the most part.
Just playing devil's advocate here ...
Would anyone choose fiberglass over steel? I think not.
From my own experience, it was being loaned steel my first time out that attracted me. And it was Kristophe's generosity in selling Schlager blades at cost and Sir Raknar's hospitality in his metal fab shop that allowed me to build a hilt for zero cost. According to Alverro, the most common question asked by potential clients at the Academy Duello is; "Do I get to use a real sword?" The answer to that is the closer.
What if we were able to remove the cost issue from the equation and project that every branch has 3 - 5 steel blades in their iron key? Would it not then be reasonable to assume that more - not less - people would be attracted to Rapier combat?
So why not plan for the future here? ... Raise money to build your branch’s iron key. Start looking for paid demos, hold dessert auctions at local events, heck - auction off a picnic luncheon with a rapier fighter to the highest bidding lady - or to act as someone’s personal “guard” at an event. (How much would Draven fetch at auction? )
Let’s put some energy into a positive change in our community. After all, “Creative” is our middle name. |
|
Yours in Service,
Sevrin de Savage
Cadet to Don Enoch Jacobsz. van Zuidland
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
|
|
|
Eira
Provost
Posts:79
|
| 09/04/2006 11:40 AM |
Alert
|
Posted By Sevrin on 09-04-2006 12:05 AM
What if we were able to remove the cost issue from the equation and project that every branch has 3 - 5 steel blades in their iron key? Would it not then be reasonable to assume that more - not less - people would be attracted to Rapier combat? So why not plan for the future here? ... Raise money to build your branch’s iron key. Start looking for paid demos, hold dessert auctions at local events, heck - auction off a picnic luncheon with a rapier fighter to the highest bidding lady - or to act as someone’s personal “guard” at an event. (How much would Draven fetch at auction? )
Exactly! You guys can say "If these rules came in to effect tomorrow we'd lose X fighters" all you want, but the fact of the matter is these rules ARE NOT coming into effect tomorrow! At this rate it looks like you're going to have a few MONTHS before anything changes. That should give groups plenty of time to upgrade their group swords to steel. Bigger Baronies probably have the cash available already. Smaller groups, if you don't have the money, go out and make it. |
|
Eira Halladottir, Man-At-Arms to Cadet Hamish MacCarraig |
|
|
warwick
Provost
Posts:124
|
| 09/04/2006 12:36 PM |
Alert
|
The point is that banning fibreglass is another gate to entry. It's easy to say "get out there and do something about it". I agree that the larger baronies will be able to cope eventually. There's always money for rapier available, sure...
The smaller outlying areas will have a much harder time of it. Saying "do more" is not an ideal solution, but that is indeed what people who want to make rapier thrive will have to do. We're already discussing a fund raiser to buy some blades for which I'll tack together some simple guards.
I suspect 40 inch dowels will be by the solution for many so new students can can take part in drill, and than watch wistfully as other fight while saving their pennies. I think I'll take apart the fibreglass and add the cups and quillons to the dowels to aid students in blade orientation.
And yes in time our steel keys will be true steel keys. I still see no reason to ban them from practice other than bloody mindedness. |
|
|
|
|
Gwydion
Free Scholar
Posts:59
|
| 09/04/2006 2:29 PM |
Alert
|
Kristophe from Danescombe is ordering blades for our area. I've tried out the TCA TO3X and it handles very well... and for 85.00 US per blade, it's a great start.
Warwick, perhaps you could contact Kristophe and see about a larger order? The more ordered, and we could see a discount.
then all we need are guards, hilts and pommels...
In Danescombe, that means our local welders in the shire, plus a few "weaponry-crafting nights".
Daggers, 57.00 US (TO5 blades)
These prices don't include s/h or possible customs but are an excellent start with blades I've been impressed with so far.
|
|
God defend me from my friends; from my enemies I can defend myself.
|
|
|
mahee_of_acre
Scholar
Posts:26
|
| 09/04/2006 5:21 PM |
Alert
|
| I have found that the greatest expence seems to be the guard. If a person does not like the look of a tin bowl, then the guard is the expence...unless someone can point out where to buy nice finished guards. |
|
Your servant,
mahee |
|
|
Hakim
Scholar
Posts:26
|
| 09/05/2006 11:58 AM |
Alert
|
Posted By warwick on 09-04-2006 12:36 PM
The point is that banning fibreglass is another gate to entry. It's easy to say "get out there and do something about it". I agree that the larger baronies will be able to cope eventually. There's always money for rapier available, sure...
The smaller outlying areas will have a much harder time of it. Saying "do more" is not an ideal solution, but that is indeed what people who want to make rapier thrive will have to do. We're already discussing a fund raiser to buy some blades for which I'll tack together some simple guards.
I suspect 40 inch dowels will be by the solution for many so new students can can take part in drill, and than watch wistfully as other fight while saving their pennies. I think I'll take apart the fibreglass and add the cups and quillons to the dowels to aid students in blade orientation.
And yes in time our steel keys will be true steel keys. I still see no reason to ban them from practice other than bloody mindedness. "I suspect 40 inch dowels will be by the solution for many so new
students can can take part in drill, and than watch wistfully as other
fight while saving their pennies. I think I'll take apart the
fibreglass and add the cups and quillons to the dowels to aid students
in blade orientation."
Just out of curiosity if we are not going to be able to use fiberglass in practice (due to safety concerns), is using dowel swords safer? Even doing slow work and drills, addrenianlin gets pumping and we start to move faster, and accidents happen. I would feel safer if my "student" had something with some give to it if they get over eager and strike me with their practice weapon.
|
|
Hakim
student to Don Enoch |
|
|
jgreywolf
Hai Gioco?
Posts:685
|
| 09/05/2006 4:16 PM |
Alert
|
What you use for drills, and what you fight with (even in practice), are two different things.
|
|
Justin Greywolf (SCA: Ramon Diaz de la Vega)
Director
Old World Martial Arts - Teaching Historical Italian Swordplay in the Pacific Northwest |
|
|
Luciano
Provost
Posts:143
|
| 09/05/2006 5:11 PM |
Alert
|
Ramon,
Are you saying that you will find it acceptable for people to drill,potentially with contact, at an SCA sanctioned practice, with dowel rods? I always thought that the rules would preclude that. That if you are at an SCA sanctioned practice, you use SCA sanctioned gear. And a dowel rod is not sanctioned.
Luciano |
|
|
|
|
jgreywolf
Hai Gioco?
Posts:685
|
| 09/05/2006 5:18 PM |
Alert
|
I was just ensuring that the distinction as understood. Someone mentioned using dowels for drill work. And then someone else started talking about the safety risk in hitting people with dowels.
Drilling is one thing. Any kind of sparring, is another. |
|
Justin Greywolf (SCA: Ramon Diaz de la Vega)
Director
Old World Martial Arts - Teaching Historical Italian Swordplay in the Pacific Northwest |
|
|
Luciano
Provost
Posts:143
|
| 09/05/2006 6:44 PM |
Alert
|
But drills often involve hitting the other person.
The distinction shouldn't be what you are doing with the "weapon", but where you are doing it. You are at an SCA sanctioned event/practice, you use SCA sanctioned equipment. You are in someone's back yard, or your home watching the Simpsons, it's none of our business what you have in your hands.
Luciano |
|
|
|
|
MollyModine
Provost
Posts:134
|
| 09/05/2006 10:09 PM |
Alert
|
| I agree with Luciano on this. |
|
Molly Modine, Hafoc
Cadet to Monseignor Prospere de Montsegur
Thorn of the Sable Rose, Argent |
|
|
warwick
Provost
Posts:124
|
| 09/05/2006 10:42 PM |
Alert
|
In one of our drills we pass a ball around rapidly. I guess that's not sanctioned equipment either.
|
|
|
|
|
lord liam
Scholar
Posts:10
|
| 09/07/2006 1:18 AM |
Alert
|
| so whats the excuse with the oval blades then, what, all you really experienced fighters can't tell when you have been hit with an edge, lip service all you want about fiberglass but the truth remains, your just being snobs. |
|
|
|
|
Sevrin
FALSE
Free Scholar
Posts:39
|
| 09/07/2006 9:12 AM |
Alert
|
Posted By warwick on 09-05-2006 10:42 PM
I guess that's not sanctioned equipment either.
Posted By lord liam on 09-07-2006 1:18 AM
your just being snobs.
So, degrading this discussion to sarcasm and name calling furthers your cause in what way?
|
|
Yours in Service,
Sevrin de Savage
Cadet to Don Enoch Jacobsz. van Zuidland
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
|
|
|
lord liam
Scholar
Posts:10
|
| 09/07/2006 6:31 PM |
Alert
|
sevrin,
to discriminate on peoples financial status, is being snobish, take it how you want it. it is really frusterating because the people i play with heard that fiberglass was going out so we all went and bought steel blades, unfortuneatly all these said blades are the oval ones and now those are going out the door to. why??????
i apologize for being rude but please, take into consideration how hard this is becoming for everyone. |
|
|
|
|