Piggy backing on the questions posed by CM Unger and Simon, I think these are great questions for the WS council to think about as this conversation about criteria develops.

“i.  How high do people think "the bar" should be?  (i.e.  top 5%?  top 10%? etc.)
ii.  After fighting prowess is taken into consideration, how heavily should intangibles be taken into consideration?
iii.  Should a large amount of intangibles make up for a slightly lower fight skill?
iv. Should a very high fight level make up for slightly lower level of intangibles?
v. Should allowances be made for 'special circumstances'?
vi. Is there a way that the members of the OWS could be more approachable to discuss issues?
vii. How heavily should recommendations be weighed when considering people to recommend to the crown?  (yes, you can send in recommendations for people)

I guess that opens up a few new questions:

Is a white scarf awarded for what you have done?
Is it awarded for what you have done and what you are expected to do?
Is it awarded because you are a successful fighter and nothing else?
Is it awarded because you are a well rounded SCA individual with a history of service, dedication to the arts (not necessarily skill in arts) and a successful fighter?”

I wanted to add to the idea of a leader for the WS council (I am specifically using the term “leader” outside of the context of the vetting/decision process for choosing new WSs and only as the head of a group).  I strongly feel the WS council needs a leader.  I see the leader filling the role of a facilitator in discussing new WSs (and perhaps casting a tie breaking vote) or filling the role of directing the development of the community, because while everyone else maybe focus on criteria for new WSs or their own development,  no one will be focused on the community as a whole.

When I first began in the rapier community about 8 years ago, the WS council was much smaller and tightly knit.  The founders of the Antir WS community still played (I am referring to Artemis, Guido and by proxy Mouse, Albert etc.).  With a smaller group it is easier to enforce specific rules and guidelines about who is admitted into the group; and while Artemis, Guido and Albert were not “official” leaders of the community, they were some of the founders and had strong enough personalities to shape and direct the development of the community.

As groups grow larger, it becomes necessary to put in place processes and more official positions/roles to ensure the longevity and stability of the group. 

Through conversations with others and my observations as an outsider, it appears that this has not happed in the WS council and thusly the criteria for new WSs appears more subjective and less firmly in place.  Additionally, as the WS council grew larger and as the founders began stepping away, no one seems to have filled the leader role.

I feel someone in a leader position can help with the future direction and development of the WS community as it inevitably grows.

Hiya’ Tore’,

            Good to hear from you.  Given I have spoken with you for any appreciable length of time only recently, I don’t know that I’m in a very good position to gauge how much of an “arrogant prick” you may or may not be.  I can say, however, that if the rumors are true then I must have caught you on a particularly good day because you seemed plenty amiable to me.  Fortunately, though, and largely due to my own experience dealing with people who like to spread rumors, I’m the kind of guy who likes to find out these things for himself.  So, until I see evidence to the contrary, you’re an okay kind of fella’ in my book.

            As for the OWS, yours is only the most recent voice I’ve heard from what seems to be a choir of voices calling for me to join the white scarf order.  Every person out there with whom I have spoken on this matter should also know that it hasn’t fallen on deaf ears.  I have given a great deal of consideration to the words of one and all, because for more than a few reasons a change such as this is no small thing for me or for the rapier community at large.  Even so, I have heard you.  So, after much deliberation, and in an effort to better serve every person out there who wields a piece of rapier steel in their hands I have decided to let the OWS know that if they feel I will be an asset to their ranks I will join their order and do what I can to help from the inside out.  What follows is my letter, sent last night, to the secretary of the white scarves (whom I know very well) indicating my decision.

            "I was told you are the secretary of the white scarves and that, as such, you are the person I should address this letter to.

            Eira, do you know anything about me?  I mean, at all?  You said as an unscarfed fighter you look at others for skill, marshalling, teaching, and giving back to the community.  Given that I myself know almost nothing about you, I am going to guess that you do indeed know nothing about me save for what you have seen I can do on the field.  That being the case, given your post, I also have to assume that you did not read the letter I submitted to the secretary of the white scarves.  I suggest you do so, because if you are worried about skill, marshalling and teaching in me, you will find it there.  As for giving back to the community, after almost twenty-one years of holding a sword in my hand, you do not have the time to read how I have given back to the community.  And the latest example is the very reason I have decided to throw my hat in the ring to become a white scarf.  Do you think I am doing this for myself?  If this was about me do you not think I would have taken up the scarf the first time it was offered?  No, I am finally listening to what countless scarves and non-scarves alike have been saying and asking for years.  They are asking me to offer my help from the inside.  I am doing this for the rapier community, Eira. 

            And since when does having a different opinion about something constitute disrespect?  A slap in the face?  Would you prefer that I went ahead and accepted a scarf when I truly felt that my path and the white scarf path were not congruent?  Would you prefer I had pretended?  Perhaps I should offer you the chance to become a Black Tiger, complete with all that entails.  When you refuse should I take that as a mark of disrespect?  As a slap in the face?  Or should I simply accept that your path and mine are different?

            Lastly, I have to say one thing more, Eira.  I find it nothing short of incredible that you actually have the gall to suggest that all I do is “show up, fight, and leave it at that”.  I strongly suggest the next time you feel like throwing labels in my direction that you sit down and do your homework first.  Truly, you know nothing about me.

           And to Kieran, you posted publicly so I shall respond in kind.  No one is telling you that anything is useless.  Trust me, when I find something that is useless I discard it.  I do not try to lend a hand.  Nor am I saying that only a cadet's skill should be the sole factor to judge whether they are worthy to be white scarves--in fact, I said quite the opposite.  What I did say, however, is that the bar of skill for admittance has been lowered.  But don't take my word for it; you have fellow white scarves who feel the same way.
          If you do would like to discuss this further offline, by all means, drop me your digits and I'll give you a call.  I am more than happy to discuss this with anyone at all.

Well, I’m glad to hear your parting statement in that post wasn’t directed at me.  Given the rest of your post was directed at me I’m sure you can see how I would think that. 

Secondly, let’s try to keep this on topic.  You ask me if I “care that rapier is just part of a bigger game”.  What exactly does that have to do with my belief that the bar of skill is too low?  If you, or anyone else, wants to participate in other “games” outside of rapier within the SCA, great!  More power to you.  I, for one, am speaking about rapier.  I am speaking about my opinions on when and why the white scarf should be given—which just happen to be the very reasons it was first given.  I have to ask, have you ever spoken with a man who goes by the SCA name of Tivar Moondragon? In case either you, or anyone else reading this does not already know, he is the fellow who started the white scarves and was given the first of them.  You want to give me your opinion about what a white scarf should mean, fine, you are certainly entitled to that opinion.  I even welcome hearing about it.  But first try finding out why it was given to him.

And now we get to the part where you have me confused.  You admit that I marshal and teach, “which certainly helps the rapier community on the whole”.  But then you ask if I have ever “actually played in the SCA”.  You admit that I got involved with the royals by serving as the Queen’s Rapier Champion which, by the way, is just so much fun standing in court after court, event after event, for an ungodly number of hours for an entire year (the last court I attended as QRC went 7 hours), and yet you ask if I have ever “actually played in the SCA”.  Maybe you are under the mistaken impression that I did all of that standing around for fun.  I have fencing groups in three different countries, students quite literally scattered all over the world, I use my language skills to help non-English speakers get to events from points abroad—some of which solely fight heavy, I teach lessons here three times a week…  And you wonder if I have ever actually played in the SCA.  Tell you what, let’s just agree that obviously your definition and mine are quite and vastly different.

You say that you find it hypocritical for me to want to join the white scarves when I disagree with the admission standards.  So I should just continue standing on the outside hoping that the problem will correct itself?  Tell me something, Eira, if you don’t like what is happening in your local government is it wiser to just shout at the TV or actually get out there and start voting?  Perhaps even run for office so you can try to change those things you disagree with?  This is me getting even deeper involved.  It seems that if I feel something can be improved then I need to try and help change along from the inside.  But, to you, this is hypocrisy.  I guess we have different definitions here too.

And, yes, let’s talk about gall.  I agree with you, it would take a substantial amount of gall on my part to go out and tell the OWS that they “NEED” me.  I mean, really, we’re talking record breaking proportions.  Good thing that’s never actually happened, eh, Eira?  By all means, point out where I have written that the OWS need me, point out the instance where I have said the OWS need me, and I’ll be happy to set the record straight.  The point is this: you want to quote me, fine, but make damn sure that I actually said it.  If someone told you I said this, then give me their name.  I am more than happy to set them straight.  I think it more than likely you either simply made a mistake or typed something that is coming across in a way you didn’t mean.  But I have previous experience with those who did deliberately spread falsehoods about me, and I take particular offense when this persists.

Hiya’ Guillemin,

            I can certainly appreciate your viewpoint.  Very honestly and forthrightly spoken, I might add.  I can also see how some of the statements I made could indeed be viewed as criticisms of individuals within the OWS, rather than of the trend that has birthed the imperfect standard we now see.  Could I have conveyed that concept better?  Oh, very likely.  Let’s face it, my ability to elucidate the exactness of my thoughts are limited both by my individual skill and the imperfect medium of this internet forum.  Attacking people is not the intention as it serves no purpose but to raise tension and tempers alike.  But so too is it true that there is no way to discuss this difficult topic without someone, somewhere, somehow taking something said one way and reading an entirely different meaning in it.  In such an instance, my options are limited.  All I can do is clarify when I think such a mistake has been made and try to do so with as little input of emotion as possible.  When something is a fact, I state it as such; when something is my opinion, I also like to be clear that it is only that and based upon my own personal experience.

            So, no, I am not trying to call attention to individuals I feel are exercising this lower bar of admittance, or those who opt out of fighting once they get their scarf, but rather the problem itself.  It is systemic, and it needs a very harsh, glaring light cast upon it if we are to see the crisis for what it really is and deal with it.  Those who have participated in the problem know who they are.  There is no need to call them out.  And, no, this does not include those individuals who have medical problems, or financial problems, or other life problems that have taken them out of the action (figured it was only a matter of time before that criticism reappeared).  I have the same respect for these people that I have for a couple of people at our practice who are not physically able to fight and yet they are still very much active in the rapier community.  I do not need to name these people either.  They know who they are and they have my respect for trying to be a part of the solution in the best way they can.

            As for your surprise, rest assured, no one was more surprised to hear me rethink my position than yours truly.  But, as I mentioned before, there comes a time when you have to stop and listen to what your friends and colleagues are telling you.  I tried it my way and the problem still persists, so now I’m ready to give their way a chance.  Surprised?  You and me both.  Changing my mind was not for me, though; it was for all those people who asked me to reconsider.  Who knows, they might even be right.

Hey all.  I haven't much here, but I've been watching this conversaton and finally decided to say a few things.

For those of you who don't know me, I'm a White Scarf in the West, a member of the Black Tigers, and I've been doing the SCA fencing thing since the mid 90's.  I do know Tora very well, but didn't know him well until 2004 when we formed the Tigers.  So, at that time, I happened upon his fencing manual online.  You can find it at www.blacktigers.us under downloads.  That was my first look at the man behind the black mask and red kanji.  He and I had followed a very similar journey to where we are, and so we started discussing fencing, the SCA and everything else.  We formed the Black Tigers shortly afterwards.

The first thing I discovered about Tora was aside from his intense love for swordplay, driven personality, and serious skill with a blade, there is this genuinely good, nice, jovial guy off the field.  He wasn't Darth Vader nor the Emporer that he seemed to be if you'd only seen him on the field.  Neither his arms nor his legs nor his sword were actually as long as everyone claimed they were.   And underneath, white as the Irish.   He wins because he does have the athletic gifts, but mostly because of his experience and his great skill with both the blade and the mental game behind the mechanics.  He's someone I've certainly learned from, and he's someone who has been teaching and training other fencers for nearly two decades.  Anyone who questions his participation and the amount he's given back to the SCA seriously hasn't paid attention or is hearing things from people with agendas.

What I have learned about Tora over the past four years is that he is most honorable, chivalrous, courteous, dependable, and all the other noble qualities you would want in a friend and ally.   He is everything a White Scarf should be and more.  When he talks about standards, he's not talking from the sidelines.  He's walking the walk.  That gives him every right to not criticize, but to ask those who do wear the scarf to step up as he has. 

I totally agree that in some cases, the bar has been lowered too much.  I also believe in other cases, those who get the WS believe it is the end of the journey instead of the beginning.  It shouldn't be a retirement into teaching mode or into some other area of the SCA.  However, many have done just that.  It's not the end cookie, it's the signing up of further responsibility.  If Tora has been honest in his reasoning as to why he has not accepted nor wanted a WS until now, you should accept his reasons and not think sinister thoughts compelled him.  I assure you it has never been the case.

So, here were are and those wise souls have convinced Tora that to improve an order from the outside is just not practical.  And Tora has come around to our way of thinking.  In the last couple of years, I was also convinced that the best way to improve standards and ask more of your brothers and sisters was to join them not just on the field, but be part of the order.  I accepted my White Scarf earlier this year after more than a decade of playing the SCA game.   I honestly believe it is time for the WS community in Antir to accept Tora for who he is.  Accept the fact that he actually will be able to improve the order from within and welcome him into the fold.  That would be a great day for all.

Lastly, I want to address the standard of prowess.  No, it's not an end all of being a White Scarf.  But, let's face it, it is the beginning.  The bar has to be at a level where beginners and intermediate fencers can expect sound advice from any WS they meet.  Prior to me getting my WS, if people didn't know me, no one asked for my advice.  At some point of the event after maybe winning a tournament or having been seen fighting, only then would fencers ask me about technique.  But, if you wear the WS, you are automatically expected to be someone with great skill and knowledge.  If the community allows average fencers or average teachers into the order, it lowers the expectations of everyone who looks up to the WS community.  And yes, politicking and who you know does play into getting in probably more than it should.   The bar of prowess needs to be high and all of the other things weigh in afterwards with teaching ability being second only to prowess.  After that, all the courtly virtues and participatory check marks can be addressed.  Otherwise, every Knight that picks up a sword for a few months should be let in right away.   The bar needs to be there for those who master the art of fencing.  That way, whenever a young fencer needs advice, we all know they will get sound advice by asking a WS.