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Tora
 Provost Posts:105
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| 09/04/2008 3:51 PM |
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As many people already know, the path of the white scarf is not one I am interested in pursuing. There are several reasons for this that mainly have to do with the selection process, politicking, participation, goals, skill levels of inductees, and other such matters that, in short, led me long ago to believe that the white scarf has strayed from the meaning it once held. And it is not just here, but everywhere. I have traveled far more than most you presently consider well-traveled ever will, and I can tell you this problem is prevalent everywhere.
Now I know there are those out there who will turn up their nose at me saying, “well, that’s just what you think,” but they would be wrong. Though it is indeed what I think, I am by no means alone. Just ask around. You’ll find likeminded individuals across the board; from the newest fighters to members of the white scarves themselves who agree with what I am saying. For most of you, this is no surprise. After all, this is hardly a closet topic I’ve just blown the dust off of and unceremoniously thrown down on the dining room table. Despite this, change within the SCA comes ever so slowly—when it comes at all—which brings me to why I bring this up now. I have recently been made aware that some within the Order of the White Scarf are trying to address at least one of their problems by bandying about the idea of a white scarf president of sorts. A white scarf to serve as the elected head of the order who would then execute whatever powers they deem such a person should have. For the moment I am led to believe that the creation of this position is being considered, more or less, to moderate the problem of bickering within the ranks—which, if true, is fine but misses the opportunity to kill the two proverbial birds with one stone.
So what then am I talking about? I’m glad you asked. The white scarves do not need one head of the order, they need two. One of the biggest problems the order faces today is how low the standard of skill has been set in order to become a member—which isn’t a surprise when you look at how 85-90 percent of those who get their scarves are never seen on the tournament field again (which can also be fixed, but I don’t want to hit you with too much at once). It’s really quite simple: when you stop fighting, your skills regress. The next thing you know you’re voting on a potential new white scarf and comparing their skills to what yours have become, rather than what they should be. And if they meet such a low bar, how much more do the skills of the new recruits regress when THEY stop fighting and are asked to vote?
The problem is that the preferred method of becoming a white scarf is more about the politicking and the schmoozing than it is about skill with the sword. The sword has become almost an afterthought. And though my bias obviously lends itself to skill—which is what the white scarf was created to recognize at its inception in the first place—I nonetheless recognize that a white scarf is about two halves. One half is the pure martial skill with a blade, the other is about teaching/credibility/courtly manners/grace…all the other noncombat aspects which must also be present. In order to ensure that you have both halves present in any candidate you first need a judge each who is an expert in their respective halves to evaluate them.
So, yes, the white scarves should gather up the members of their order and vote upon whom they believe is the shining example of all the noncombat aspects being a white scarf entails. This person will be one half of the vetting process for potential new members. As for the other, you must hold a tournament and find out who is--hands down--the strongest among you. Nine times out of ten, the one who emerges on top will be the one who cares the most about personal skill, and the least about politicking and bickering and the whining that results… In short, he/she is the perfect judge of skill and, thereby, where to set that bar.
Obviously, these positions will come with no small amount of responsibility. It will be up to these two people to get to know and evaluate those cadets under consideration. And, as such, if either of these two say a candidate is not ready then it, quite simply, does not happen.
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Tora
I'm the optimist who plans for when the pessimist is right. |
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Arffuidsson
 Free Scholar Posts:71
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| 09/04/2008 5:48 PM |
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Greetings,
Basically, I find the concept stupid. Even if they decided on one or two, they would still have all of the fun of politics involved in their decision making process. Heck, even the decision of who gets to make the decision will be problematic.
There are other problems for those in the polling order; distance, rumors, personal opinion, to name a few. All of these would be compounded by the president/ foreman system.
I feel that the only way to change the bar is to help get the people who are willing to make those transformations to belly-up to the “White Scarf Bar”. For better or worse, it takes people in the group to change it.
Thanks for the post! And don’t worry; the politics will still be there when we are dead and gone.
In Service to the West, Staffan Arffuidsson |
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Tora
 Provost Posts:105
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| 09/04/2008 6:56 PM |
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Sadly, you are right in that the politics will certainly still be there--and mainly because there are just too many who like to partake.
Whether or not the idea of el presidente turns out to be stupid or not will depend mainly upon how they go about selecting him/her. If such an election were to be conducted under the same popularity contest that currently rules the cadet-to-white-scarf transition then, yes, it will be a disaster.
As for making new scarves, however, I truly believe that they absolutely need something of a hard and fast criteria by which to evaluate the cadets. Their whole president idea aside, two people, one evaluating combat prowess and the other evaluating their noncombat virtues, serving as the gatekeepers into the order, is one way to reverse the decline. I'm not even saying they would be needed forever. Who knows, once the new bar for entrance has been firmly established it might simply become accepted as the new norm by all white scarves in their consideration of who is and is not ready for admittance.
But they are not there yet. |
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Tora
I'm the optimist who plans for when the pessimist is right. |
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Morleigh
 Free Scholar Posts:61
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| 09/04/2008 7:39 PM |
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| I think you may be neglecting to take into account the role that the Crown plays in granting entrance to the Order. They have their own agenda, and the opinions of the existing WSs may or may not sway Them. |
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Tora
 Provost Posts:105
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| 09/04/2008 8:46 PM |
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| No, trust me, I haven't forgotten them. But let's face it, most royalty have no idea about who the scarf candidates are. That's not a criticism anymore than it is to say I do not know who the squires-soon-to-be-knights are. But the usual participation of the royalty to elevate a cadet starts with the white scarves making a recommendation. Wisely, the royalty listen to those who have more knowledge on the subject than they do. Then, poof!, they make a new white scarf. |
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Tora
I'm the optimist who plans for when the pessimist is right. |
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GuilleminDeRouen
 Free Scholar Posts:34

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| 09/05/2008 4:37 PM |
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I don't think this is necessarily the solution that the community is looking for, but I think it's a good thing to discuss. I know from talking to several members that regression is a concern, personnally and across the order, and the fighting ability of new members might be an issue to some, but that's obviously not something most members will talk about (and quite properly, so).
I'd contend that it's not our place to concern ourselves with the qualifications of others, be they marshal or otherwise, and we should focus on our contributions to the community, not the contributions others have made to be designated as prominent leaders (unless you're looking to help someone be recognized, of course).
Along those lines, I'd suggest the following to you: If, in your opinion, the Order of the White Scarf does not represent what it should because the bar for entry has been lowered, make it your personal mission to raise the quality of the order. The selection process is broken and there's too much politicking? Then get your voice in the council and work to fix it from within. Okay, maybe the politics will always be there, but they can certainly be moderated to some extent. I've only met you a couple of times, but I know you have an amazing amount to contribute to the community, whether you're wearing a Scarf or not. So make that contribution from within the Order, pushing to make it everything that you want it to be (whether it be with the technique you suggested or not). |
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Guillemin de Rouen Cadet to Raoul Scar of Tir Righ |
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Tora
 Provost Posts:105
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| 09/06/2008 4:04 PM |
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"I'd contend that it's not our place to concern ourselves with the qualifications of others, be they marshal or otherwise, and we should focus on our contributions to the community, not the contributions others have made to be designated as prominent leaders (unless you're looking to help someone be recognized, of course)."
Here I have to disagree with you. If we do not concern ourselves with the qualifications of those who would enter the order then the decline so many hope to reverse merely accelerates. The award itself would be nothing more than candy. You have to have standards--and when it comes to those who are to be looked upon as the elite they must be high standards indeed.
As for your suggestions, you aren't far off. As you said, you have only met me a couple of times but I do not think we would have to meet too many times more before you came to understand I have already made it my mission. Not just for the white scarves but rapier as a whole. And, yes, I have heard it said many times before that I should try and fix the system from within. Until recently I have not even considered this as an option as I did not want to lend my own credibility to a system that was broken. To be honest, however, despite some progress--albeit slowly--that has been made with the help of certain like-minded scarves and non scarves out there I have started to wonder if my initial hesitance to take up the scarf might not have been misplaced. Let's just say the jury is still out on that.
In the interim, if they are to save themselves as a credible order, the white scarves have to insist upon a higher bar...and meet that bar themselves. |
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Tora
I'm the optimist who plans for when the pessimist is right. |
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SimonFencer
 Provost Posts:132

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| 09/07/2008 10:13 AM |
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Just a few of comments...And I don't assume these to be anyone else's opinions and I am not pointing fingers at any one here.
If you don't like the game don't play. That seems fairly simple. (The SCA is much like monopoly...it has house rules and they can change or not every 6 months).
And the problem is not just with the Order & Crown, it is also with the candidate that is offered entry into the order. How many candidates that have been offered entry (back to the very first in Ansteorra) have honestly thought when the white is dangled, "Am I ready?"
I think I am, on average, as good as majority of the order. Would I have accepted entry into the order at September Crown had it been offered? Not a chance. My bar is pretty high (set by some people I have tons of respect for) and I have no idea if I will ever reach it and I know I wasn't close it last weekend.
At the end of the day it doesn't matter how fighter X got selected (names drawn from a hat, whatever), if the candidate accepts for the wrong reasons they are part of the problem too. |
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Paul Franklin
in the SCA: Simon Valdez, AoA, cadet to Mouse
Around the triple W: Simonfencer |
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TheStudent
 Novice Posts:8
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| 09/08/2008 9:00 AM |
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Great Simon thats what we need in this society people who are as like minded as you are..."Hey if something is bad and needs fixing dont just quit". "If you dont like the game just quit." Sadly to say I think the Man likes the game to no ends, I mean look at him he is a regular Achillies out there why would he quit. And one more thing, if thats the kind of mentality that you have when every time you are faced with an obstacle you just quit because it is tough or you just don't like it, then mabe you should take a look at yourself.  |
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SimonFencer
 Provost Posts:132

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| 09/08/2008 10:36 AM |
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TheStudent:
Not really quite sure how to take your comment, since I have absolutely no idea who you are I have no way of interpretting the tone of your reply.
I never said Tora didn't like fencing. In this case fencing does not appear to be the issue, it seems that it is the system of giving out awards for fencing. That would be the "game" I am referring to. If someone doesn't agree with how the bangles are distributed don't take one if offered. Pretty simple concept. Or take one and set about to making changes for the better. The simple fact of the matter is if you are not either a member of the OWS or sitting Royalty you don't get a voice in how people are selected. That is pretty much how it works for any of the orders or peerages.
And if you notice from the rest of my post I don't advocate quitting fencing at all.
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Paul Franklin
in the SCA: Simon Valdez, AoA, cadet to Mouse
Around the triple W: Simonfencer |
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Luciano
 Provost Posts:144

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| 09/08/2008 11:52 AM |
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Why would, nine times out of ten, the one who emerges on top will be the one to care the most about personal skill? I don't see the obvious correlation. The person that comes out on top, on a given day, will clearly care about their own personal skill, but how does that correlate to caring about other peoples personal skill, and being able to judge that skill consistently?
And on judging other peoples skill. How does the person on top, for that given tournament, decide where the bar will be? Do they have to be able to beat to top guy? Show well against them? Not get one-shotted in the head?
There is nothing about this system that will guarantee, as you suggest it will, that the bar will be raised and put at a consistent spot. It just gives you two people that have to agree on someone, instead of a consensus of the whole order. And it would make it harder for fighters outside of the core areas to become WS, since there are two specific WS that have to get to know that person.
That being said, I think we should hold a yearly tournament, WS only, to see who has bragging rights to being on the top WS for the next year. We could run it concurrently with the WS invitational. In addition to having the Round Robin for the invited fighters, we could round robin amongst ourselves as well.
Also, the number of WS that you never see on the tournament field again isn't quite at 85-90% kingdom wide. It's more like 30% if you look at recent(last 20, not counting the last 3) WS, and 50% when you look at the order in total. Admittedly that is still too many WS sitting on the sidelines not fighting, but it isn't as bad as you make it sound, kingdom wide.
Luciano |
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TheStudent
 Novice Posts:8
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| 09/08/2008 1:09 PM |
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If you don't like the game don't play. That seems fairly simple. (The SCA is much like monopoly...it has house rules and they can change or not every 6 months). I sence alittle unease, you said it yourself....Well the game to me is the SCA, and if you quit playing the game then well I guess that would mean you stop the SCA, and if you stop the SCA that means........ well you already know that don't you |
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Tora
 Provost Posts:105
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| 09/08/2008 1:15 PM |
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First to Simon: though I don't know who the Student is either, your post seemed to suggest the same thing to me that it did to him. It sounded as though you were saying that if you don't like something, or the way it is played, then you should just quit. Glad to hear it was just a misinterpretation.
And I do agree with you that many people take up the scarf when they are not ready. Whether that is because they never really looked inward to ask themselves if they were truly ready...I can't say. I'm not them. But I do know that if they do not have a shining example of a bar to compare themselves to then there is no way they could know. You are right, however, in that I cannot expect a say in how the white scarves select candidates if I am not one of them. Nothing to prevent me from making--what I think anyway--are some suggestions I believe might help them.
To Luciano: to clarify, when I say that 9 times out of 10 the one who comes out on top of such a tournament as I mentioned is more concerned with the development of personal skill and less so about the politicking, I am speaking not about the individual who just happens to be the biggest fish in the local pond but the great white in a much larger ocean. It has been my experience around the world that the person who is the strongest fencer in a much greater sampling across a region spends less time concerning himself with internal politics and more so with his or her own training and development as a fighter. Not saying it is any better than the person who spends less time with it, only that their priorities are such that skill development takes a much higher placement on that list.
As for that person judging a candidate's skill, well, that is really up to them. Whatever they decide, though, I would bet they already have an idea for a tangible, discernible bar that they would use to gauge the readiness of the candidate. I have it for my own students, and it it is the same no matter where they are in the world. I'm sure it would take very little effort on the part of that white scarf to come up with their own gauge of readiness as well.
As you mentioned, yes, it also means that person would have to get to know that fighter. This person would have to travel some--at the very least make arrangements to meet with these potential candidates at some chosen event--so as to learn and determine the suitability of this person's standard of skill. Royals do this kind of travelling all the time. I do not think it would be too much to ask of someone who shoulders this kind of responsibility to do some of the same.
In terms of the number of white scarves I see sidelining themselves, I'm glad you agree the number is too large even if we disagree on how prevalent and widespread the problem is. I've been watching, though. Many times have I been sad to count the number of white scarves present at an event only to watch a fraction of them actually participate in the fighting. I am a strong advocate of leading by example, and while there are certainly white scarves out there who are doing that very thing they, unfortunately, are in the minority.
Is it irreversible? Absolutely not. Can the prestige of the order and the awe with which they were once viewed be restored? You'd better believe it. I know because it is already happening in another kingdom I once called home. I just don't want to see the white scarves of Antir having to play catch up. Or worse, never catching up at all. |
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Tora
I'm the optimist who plans for when the pessimist is right. |
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SimonFencer
 Provost Posts:132

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| 09/08/2008 2:22 PM |
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Posted By TheStudent on 09/08/2008 1:09 PM If you don't like the game don't play. That seems fairly simple. (The SCA is much like monopoly...it has house rules and they can change or not every 6 months). I sence alittle unease, you said it yourself....Well the game to me is the SCA, and if you quit playing the game then well I guess that would mean you stop the SCA, and if you stop the SCA that means........ well you already know that don't you No unease at all. I don't do a whole lot of stuff I don't enjoy, I don't have anywhere near enough spare time for doing things I do like to waste time on stuff I don't. I don't camp at events anymore because that kills a lot of the enjoyment for me. I don't fight in many tournaments because I don't particularly care for the competition side of the sport. I like learning about the period techniques/skills and that is about where it ends. And while a tournament might be a good way to test period techniques/skills I much prefer just sparring with a group of like minded individuals.
And a lot of people might not have realized this: the SCA is not a required ingredient for getting enjoyment out of fencing.
That is more of my underlying thoughts for why I said if you don't like the game don't play. |
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Paul Franklin
in the SCA: Simon Valdez, AoA, cadet to Mouse
Around the triple W: Simonfencer |
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Morleigh
 Free Scholar Posts:61
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| 09/08/2008 2:58 PM |
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"As for that person judging a candidate's skill, well, that is really up to them. "
Now that makes the bar entirely subjective because now there is no need for consensus. Now we have no other voices to counter the inevitable personal bias of the person making the decision. I agree with Luciano - whoever is in charge will have an inherent bias towards fighters they see more regularly. In the current system, WSs who see a fighter frequently can speak for them to the whole group. It's a flawed system, but I don't see your proposed system fixing the things you want to fix.
"And the problem is not just with the Order & Crown, it is also with the candidate that is offered entry into the order. How many candidates that have been offered entry (back to the very first in Ansteorra) have honestly thought when the white is dangled, 'Am I ready?' "
Who has the charecter, when sitting in front of Their Majesties, the Order, and the rest of the fencers, to say "thanks but no thanks" not knowing if it will ever be offered again? I'd like to think I do, but I can't say for certain that I would say no under those circumstances no matter how aware I was of my lack of fitness for the position. If there is indeed a problem of the bar being lowered over time, perhaps it would be beneficial for potential WSs, like peers, to have a period of vigil to think about whether or not they are ready. If they feel they aren't, they and the Crown could agree to make it a looooong vigil (of course, some already feel that the WSs behave too much like a peerage and would protest such a move, but assuming it could be instituted....). Assuming that all potential WSs are into soul-searching, are honest with themselves and the Order and the Crown, and are willing to put in the effort to make improvements during the vigil period, perhaps that would effect the change you're looking for, Tora. |
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LucienD
 Novice Posts:3
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| 09/08/2008 4:31 PM |
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I rarely post online, but today I will make an exception.
Tora...
You are one of the most realistic people within our community. I have often said that if i lived three hours south I would be training with you.
My former mentor Lasairiona respected your opinions, attitude and ability. There is no question about the depth you bring to our rapier community, and the skill, experience and knowledge you possess.
She believed that a white scarf should continue the persuit of excellence long after they achieve this award... and that meant leading by example... fighting, teaching, marshalling and study of the arte.
Like you said in court, she was a fighter. Lasairiona picked up her sword and fought with it until the day she could absolutely fight no more. Even while sick she made it to our principality semifinals, and had the most wins in both of the erics, she taught at our practice, and sparred and tested her students, cadets, and anyone else who picked up a sword.
As we both know, only a fighter can truly recognize another fighter.
However...
Tora, in order to make the changes needed... to right all of the things you perceive as wrong, you can't continue to look and comment from the outside.
You need to make the necessary changes from within.
We all know that you have the skill, the knowledge, and the proven track record.
More importantly though, your absolutely honest, and you don't mince words.
Furthermore, didn't Blayde take a WS in his kingdom?
Also, when did anything get accomplished by just fixating on proving a point to people who pretend not to care.
As for choosing a leader of the order...
There should be a tournament consisting of only those who are members of the OWS, and I am not the only person who has this opinion. (I also think it would be a great tournament to watch)
However I think that rather than one or two, there should be a council of 5 or 7 chosen through right of arms. Our Royalty is chosen through this method, perhaps the leaders of this community should be chosen through this as well.
Have one Don of Dons... and 4 other skilled dons leading the order and making decisions together on who and why a person is or is not admitted to the order.
Make it a yearly tournament at a Kingdom level event, and by right of arms are all of the Dons chosen for this council.
This council then makes decisions whether or not to promote a person to the order, or not.
Changes need to be made.
But, in order to do that, this order needs fighters of like mind. It needs fighters who are willing to get down and dirty when it is necessary, and say what needs to be said, and lead our community by example. It needs Tora, and people like him.
In our fencing community, I firmly agree with Tora's point that we need to have a very high standard for our 'leaders'.
As a group, we cannot let the standard of our arte slip because we like someone and want that individual to be part of 'the club'. They either meet the pre-requisites, or they do not, it's that simple.
If they have potential, then as leaders of the community, you take individuals under your wing (ie cadets) and foster those qualities.
Lets be honest with each other, not every person is going to be, or can be the elite of our rapier community. There are a select few who shine brighter than the rest, and these fencers eventually become the true leaders and trail blazers of our community.
So, for the greater good of the arte, and for the upcoming fighters who have yet to pick up a sword and fight... I challenge you Tora, to take the opportunity when it next presents itself, become a white scarf, and help fix the problems from within.
And if you really feel that you can't make any changes after giving it an honest try, then give back your White Scarf to the His and Her Majesties (who every they be at the time) openly state your reasons in court, and leave the order.
Actions will always speak louder that words, as talk is cheap, and internet forums are cheaper.
We have talked about this issue among others on more than one occasion, and I believe that you have a lot of great ideas that should be implemented or in the very least, seriously considered.
In the end this isn't about our individual pride, or about proving a point.
The good of our community has to come first.
I have a lot of respect for you Tora, and what you have done so far. I only issue you this challenge because I honestly believe that by donning a white scarf, you would make a positive difference in the rapier community of An Tir.
Sincerely,
Lucien de la Montagne d'or Principality Champion of Tir Righ
Simon Fencer - Yes, its true that fencing is not limited to the SCA. I started fighting with rapiers outside of the SCA, but was drawn into the society because of a large and excellent pool of fighters to cross blades with, and if so inclined, compete with.
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CM_Unger
 Provost Posts:85
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| 09/08/2008 7:57 PM |
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Good morning.
(These are my own opinions and comments, and in now way reflect other people's opinions, so don't paint others with my brush )
I have some random thoughts.
Having talked to people throughout the Kingdom (and a few, but not many from outside An Tir) there are people who think that the fight level for recommendation to Their Majesties for admittance to the OWS is too high. As we've seen here there are those that think it's too low.
Someone had said that the only way to change the system is from the inside (referring to the OWS system). I disagree with this. Many of the OWS members that I know well actively search out the opinions of rapier fighters (and non fighters) on topics relating to OWS membership. If you think there is an issue talk to an OWS member. They should bring it to the attention of the rest of the membership. We have changed the way we do stuff based on feedback and talking to people. (one example is the White Scarf Invitational)
hmm ... I had a lot more to say when I was at work ... I just can't think now
William
ps, I am one of the members that Tora mentioned that has reduced the amount he fights. I know that my skills have gotten worse, so I judge fighting accordingly.
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CM_Unger
 Provost Posts:85
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| 09/09/2008 7:42 AM |
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I've been thinking about people's opinions a fair amount lately. (Thanks for getting people thinking and talking Tora)
A couple questions have come up in my mind.
In your opinion;
i. How high do people think "the bar" should be? (i.e. top 5%? top 10%? etc.) ii. After fighting prowess is taken into consideration, how heavily should intangibles be taken into consideration? iii. Should a large amount of intangibles make up for a slightly lower fight skill? iv. Should a very high fight level make up for slightly lower level of intangibles? v. Should allowances be made for 'special circumstances'? vi. Is there a way that the members of the OWS could be more approachable to discuss issues? vii. How heavily should recommendations be weighed when considering people to recommend to the crown? (yes, you can send in recommendations for people)
Work calls so I have to head out ...
William
ps, if anyone wants to send a private missive, my email is mark.unger@shaw.ca
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SimonFencer
 Provost Posts:132

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| 09/09/2008 10:36 AM |
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Posted By CM_Unger on 09/09/2008 7:42 AM I've been thinking about people's opinions a fair amount lately. (Thanks for getting people thinking and talking Tora)
A couple questions have come up in my mind.
In your opinion;
i. How high do people think "the bar" should be? (i.e. top 5%? top 10%? etc.) ii. After fighting prowess is taken into consideration, how heavily should intangibles be taken into consideration? iii. Should a large amount of intangibles make up for a slightly lower fight skill? iv. Should a very high fight level make up for slightly lower level of intangibles? v. Should allowances be made for 'special circumstances'? vi. Is there a way that the members of the OWS could be more approachable to discuss issues? vii. How heavily should recommendations be weighed when considering people to recommend to the crown? (yes, you can send in recommendations for people)
Work calls so I have to head out ...
William
ps, if anyone wants to send a private missive, my email is mark.unger@shaw.ca
What do you consider intangibles? Is it stuff like dedication to periodness (fighting, persona development, A&S)? Service to the Rapier community (or SCA in general)?
I guess that opens up a few new questions:
Is a white scarf awarded for what you have done? Is it awarded for what you have done and what you are expected to do? Is it awarded because you are a successful fighter and nothing else? Is it awarded because you are a well rounded SCA individual with a history of service, dedication to the arts (not necessarily skill in arts) and a successful fighter?
In my mind, none of these are invalid reasons and personally I like the last one best, but that is just me.
The one thing that no one really has a lot of control over is how active someone will be after getting any sort of award. Any number of things can get in the way of any hobby. I think it would be great if everyone that is inactive that I enjoy seeing at events was in active, but that is not really realistic.
I have no criticism for the inactive members of the order either. Maybe the SCA just isn't fun for some of them at this time. I didn't touch my gear for a year, because tournaments, practice, the whole shebang simply felt like a chore and offered me zero enjoyment. Maybe some of them will find what made it fun for them and come back to play, maybe some won't.
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Paul Franklin
in the SCA: Simon Valdez, AoA, cadet to Mouse
Around the triple W: Simonfencer |
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Tora
 Provost Posts:105
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| 09/09/2008 11:48 AM |
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For Morleigh: I think you might be looking at the once sentence and forgetting the rest of the paragraph to which it was attached. Any person put into such a position as to decide who does and does not meet the standard for entrance into the order would have a “tangible and discernible” bar that must be met. I have just such a standard within my own school. After earning their black scarf, every rank subsequent has very hard and fast goals that must be accomplished before the student can wear that rank. This gatekeeper, as it were, would serve to make sure this standard was met.
For Lucien: Your teacher and I were very much in lock step about what we believed should happen after receiving the white scarf. Similarly, she recognized the problems that have arisen since its inception. Had she been given more time with us I have no doubt we would have made great allies.
I like your idea for a white scarf council chosen by combat; it has potential. Such a council would take the great responsibility off of the one individual and distribute it across five or so of the strongest white scarves in the kingdom. A suitable bar of skill would certainly come from a gathering of such minds.
As for your challenge, it is…under consideration. I have heard from a great many of late—scarves and non scarves alike—who say I should take it up. To be clear, I have always thought that one day I would indeed do just that. I had, however, envisioned it to be after seeing a much higher standard put into place, and then being considered based upon having met that standard. Perhaps, though, you are right. Maybe it is time to stop shouting at the walls and instead walk through the gate where I might better be heard. The much larger question I suppose then is whether or not the white scarves, knowing more fully what I am about, would still feel comfortable with someone like me standing amid their ranks. |
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Tora
I'm the optimist who plans for when the pessimist is right. |
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